A few weeks ago, I noticed that the onramp to I-5 southbound from 45th Street had undergone some changes with regard to the HOV lane (the rightmost of the two lanes on the ramp). Some readers have noticed it, too.
Previously, HOV traffic was allowed to enter the freeway without stopping. During busy times, the left (non-HOV) lane was metered forcing traffic there to wait for a green signal from the light at the left of the lane.
Now, two lights hang from an overhead beam. During busy times, both lanes are metered meaning that HOV and non-HOV traffic must wait for their respective green signal before entering I-5. Each lane appears to get the same number of greens in a given interval of time; there are no “extra cycles” for the HOV folks. So things appear to have gotten a little tougher for car poolers.
I asked WSDOT what was behind the change, and heard back (ever so promptly, I might add!) from Lisa Van Cise of WSDOT Communications:
The reason behind the change is two-fold:
Safety improvements – By metering both the general purpose and HOV lanes of traffic, the merging vehicles become more evenly spaced, providing an easier and safer merge for highway and merging traffic.
Efficiently operating the freeway – The low cost improvement also reduces traffic backups. Prior to the change, traffic would back up on the ramp, city streets and I-5 as drivers jockeyed for position, creating backups and secondary backups.
And she added this:
The intent of HOV lanes is to make our highway system run more efficiently, however this ramp was one with a high number of HOV violators, essentially negating the benefit of a bypass lane.
So, those of you that were being bad have spoiled it for the rest of us. I must admit, though, that the race to get to the standstill freeway lanes between the HOV and non-HOV traffic under the previous arrangement could create some tense moments. Now, those are just fond memories.
People just don’t know how to merge on to freeways, they slow down or even stop when there’s still 150 yards of lane to merge, then there’s the A-holes that speed up to not sallow a car to merge in front of them. In most of Europe they follow the zipper rule allowing cars to merge more effectively, (something probably not learned here).
The zipper rule is supposed to be highly urged lately, I have seen KING5 posts about it. I find that there are less a-holes that speed up here in Seattle. Spiteful Spokane is spiteful haha
It sound like this new configuration will do little to curtail the HOV scofflaws. Maybe enforcing HOV laws would be a good idea (though I don’t think I’ve ever seen a cop at this onramp).
All kind of traffic laws are violated all the time without being caught. The goal is to make the traffic smooth and safe.This improvement is for that, and I think it’s a good idea.
To have cops standing there catching HOV violators is just a waste of resources. Camera would be a better idea for that kind of thing.
And posted cops always cause traffic jams. Everyone slows down to not be caught speeding, and then it extrapolates and becomes a parking lot. This is especially frustrating in the morning and evening commute times.
I have oddly always found this onramp to have very forgiving traffic when it comes to letting people merge. I figure that we are all just trying to get somewhere and it is rare to have someone be spiteful and not let you in. I am from Spokane, and everyone there is spiteful. I take Seattle traffic over Spokane any day.
Why couldn’t they just ticket HOV violators? That would generate revenue and improve throughput and favor carpooling. Instead our tax dollars are going to pay for a new signal light. Paying extra to give up on carpool and bus lanes, that’s great WSDOT, thanks for spending my tax dollars this way.
Because ticketing violators won’t resolve the traffic problem. The issue right now is that when i5 is slow, the car from the carpool lane would jam up the lane and causing huge backup for the other lane, which then jamming long long stretches of all neighboring streets.
With this new system, you don’t have one uncontrolled lane that would feed cars regardless what’s happening on i5.
If there are no cheaters but you don’t change the system, the traffic problem would actually be worse. Cheaters actually helps in the old setup, because they are effectively acting as late mergers that increase the utilization of the roads.
That’s not what WSDOT said, and that argument sounds like a good reason to get rid of special transit right of way everywhere. Single occupant vehicles are backing up, and that’s why we need to create right of way for transit and carpools to encourage those forms of transportation.
What I said is completely in line with what WSDOT said. They are saying it’s about efficiency, and said that HOV lane as it was didn’t help efficiency therefore they change.
I think the part you may not be realizing is if we keep thing as is and have zero cheater, it will not make transit or carpool more popular. With things as is and no cheaters, the traffic would be backed up further away on 45th and all the surrounding neighborhood streets. The buses would be stuck on 45th even longer. You ran read Jen’s comment above as a validation of how this change actually helps ALL, including the HOV.
Trying to enforce the HOV lane rule and keep things as is would be just about the worst option. That would only be feasible if we also start putting HOV lanes on 45th, similar to Aurora. I guess we can do that by removing all the street parking on 45th.
The HOV lane line will be shorter. But having to stop[ will make observation of violators easier.
I’m actually a carpooler and at first was somewhat miffed at the change, but it was actually so difficult to get on to the on ramp from 45th, I think this actually makes everything go faster. Besides, there were very few actual carpoolers who would use that lane — it was all cheaters and the Microsoft Connector.
What is an HOV lane? ( c re c)
Another comment re where Market has become 50th an dthen becomes Midvale Pl right before it becomes 45th Ave N.. there is a stop sign which is completely obscured by a tree! People do not see it and thus, do not stop. I called the developer whose name was on the exciting info blurb re changes to that intersection 2 weeks ago and he agreed to get the leaves/ branches trimmed. They are not trimmed yet. His name may be John and he lives by Market time- heis a resident who useds that intersection. How can we get the tree trimmed? ( c re c)
SDOT plans on redoing that intersection in early 2020. They will be eliminating the westbound lane that continues straight onto 45th st and removing the stop for traffic heading east around the curve. https://www.theurbanist.org/2019/06/19/spot-fix-44-bus-lane/
I’m happy to see that both lanes are now metered. I take this ramp several days/week, and agree with WSDOT, more often than not the vehicles that used the HOV lane were violators. There’s not much more frustrating than being queued in the single lane, and seeing one of those a-holes go flying past in their expensively badged cars.
I’ve see the State Patrol only once policing the HOV lane of an on-ramp, on the Beardslee ramp to SB 405, and the officer was busy.
At this point, I think that all ramps should have metered lights on both lanes, as this HOV lane cheating is a big issue.
Capitulating to a few bad actors is no way to form public policy.
It actually is for traffic laws in general. Traffic laws keep people safe not by enforcing, but by habit-forming. Vast majority of the traffic laws are violated by ” a few bad actors” all the time and never punished, but the policy still works. Speed limits on highways are actually enforced in the way where people are allowed or even encouraged to break it, by a tiny amount, to ensure everybody is driving around the speed limit to smooth the flow.
People also jaywalks without being punished all the time. The idea of having jaywalk as illegal isn’t because we intend to punish jaywalkers, but to make people very aware that they are violating the law when they do that, therefore heighten their senses when they do that to be safer. Jaywalking isn’t more dangerous than crosswalks probably because people actually pay less attention when they use the crosswalks.
Your analogy to speeding and jaywalking laws isn’t relevant. HOV lanes aren’t meant to keep people safe, they’re meant to encourage carpooling. Restricting access to them will curb a behavior that benefits society, which is the opposite of the lane’s purpose.
You are mixing two different topics. There is the topic of encouraging carpooling, which is NOT being achieved with the original set up, which makes the street inefficient for everybody, including the carpoolers. And as I’ve stated again and again, having stricter carpooling enforcement with the old setting will actually making things worse. It will not have served the purpose of encouraging carpooling at all. You got that wrong. The change wasn’t about capitulating to a few bad actors. The change was to make the streets more efficient for all, carpoolers or not.
The other topic is if capitulating to a few bad actors is a way to form public policy. You got that wrong also obviously. It’s the norm of most policies to simply ignore a few bad actors as long as the system overall works. Just look at how private business would have just enough anti-theft practices that scare off enough bad actors, as opposed to trying to catch every single thief.
I can’t blame you for not understanding all this though. The mechanism of law and order is more efficient if most people are ignorant about how it works, just blindly believe in following the rules. It’s OK for you and most people to stay ignorant actually. There is no need for everybody to be expert on everything. Most of us don’t know how car engine control chips work, and many car owners don’t even know those things exist. That hurts nobody and there is no need for car owners to know.
Thanks for the education. I’m dumb. So are SOVs.
it’d be cool to see the DOT enforce “no trespassing” and clean up the on ramps in the seattle area – the junkie camps are out of control.
One little problem: the vast majority of those campers are there because they want to be there. Public housing rules prohibit the buying and selling of stolen goods, young girls and drugs. Tent encampments are established in places where people cannot see or report their illegal activities.
You cannot make somebody live some place they don’t want to live.
You want to help them? Stop enabling them like we do in Seattle and do what many cities other cities do. Arrest them, and give them a choice. treatment or jail.
Not sure why you seem to be opposed to treatment for addicts. And plenty of them get clean and stay that way in jail as well. They credit jail with literally saving their life.
But by all means, let’s continue allowing them to camp where they want, destroying our public spaces and stealing from honest citizens to fund their habit with no worry of being held accountable, that’s been working marvelously.
You say you want a “real discussion.” I offer you a solution, “treatment or jail.” You might not like it, but you offer no solution of your own. All you said in your effort at “discussion” was to say I just care about locking people up. But I’m the one not playing fair?
You know why we have jail? To protect the rest of society from people who victimize us. People who steal from and assault others need to be removed from society until they are no longer a danger to themselves or others. And they need to be held accountable for the harm they’ve done to others, And, if they have mental illness or addiction issues, they need to be treated. Allowing these people to live like this is no way to run a city.
So that, in a nutshell, is my solution. I’m not sure why that should be a controversial idea, but if you can’t offer anything other than maintaining the status quo and enabling more of the same, well, that’s not really engaging in a discussion, is it.
No, because it’s not a crime to be homeless.
Do you propose locking up people for petty crimes, which are unavoidable if you are homeless? If not, how the you help the majority of homeless people? What if people don’t accept treatment, release them or keep them locked up? For how long?
The “HOV” status of that lane is a joke. Every other car going through there has one driver, and 90% of the scofflaws have dark tinted windows so enforcement is more difficult.
When will WSP or SPD start randomly enforcing that lane? And when will police start enforcing laws that prohibit dark tinted windows? I’m noticing that some of these repeat offenders are starting to tint their windshields, too – that seems real smart.
I always mark down the license plates of cheaters and report them here https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/travel/highways-bridges/hov/report-violator