I was chatting with a friend of mine in real estate the other day, and he had an interesting take on 45th Street:
Noting that commercial districts around 45th (Fremont, south Stone Way, Tangletown, 65th, even along the waterfront) have all seen some interesting new businesses come in, while 45th itself has been relatively stagnant, with new restaurants and shops struggling to survive, he declared 45th “the hole in the donut”.
But why?
His notion is that the people who own the property along 45th are holding onto it, waiting for their payday when the new HALA rezone goes into effect and allows for taller buildings all along the 45th Street corridor (thus making their properties more valuable). In the meantime, they’re not willing to invest a penny in their existing properties, on the assumption that they’ll be torn down when they’re sold, so capital improvements don’t make financial sense.
As a result, anyone wanting to do business on 45th Street has to take a short-term lease (because the owner wants the ability to sell as soon as the new rules go into effect) and has to pay for any capital improvements themselves. This certainly fits with what we know: the Seamonster renovation is entirely funded by the tenants, just like the Octopus Bar was.
Add to this that Seattle building code rules require that if you make “substantial improvements” to an older building, you are then required to bring the entire building “up to code” (including earthquake retrofitting), which can make relatively affordable projects unaffordable.
The question I have is why is Wallingford / 45th Street different than Ballard, Green Lake, Fremont and other surrounding areas in terms of its ownership? Or is just that the existing zoning is different?
On a related note, here’s a tidbit I learned from Mike Ruby: if you’ve ever wondered why that parking lot next to Uptown Espresso is just a parking lot, instead of a development of some sort, it’s because the ground underneath it is so polluted from a service shop that used to be there that whoever wants to build will be responsible for hauling the soil to a toxic waste containment facility in Oregon, which makes any developer shudder.
Any old timers remember the name of the service shop that used to be there?
[UPDATE: Joyce added this info in the comments:The name of the service station was Vic’s Gas Station. It was also called the Lil Stinker station and they had an artist’s sketch of a skunk as the mascot. He sold cheap gas. It was owned by Victor Green. That’s about all I can tell you. Gas may have been around 25 cents a gallon. Unbelievable, I know. ]
I would sure not be surprised to find out that Wallingford is not well served by some of its landlords. But just a few of them. I think if you go from door to door along the main “upland” stretch, you’ll see pretty low turnover, and that’s why if a business comes to the area, it’s more likely to find a spot on Stone. The struggling businesses tend to come and go in the same couple of places, and it might be interesting to hear from those landlords and a couple of their prior tenants and find out what’s going on.
Naturally for marijuana retailers, Stone is a premium location, but those two have found 1-story buildings. We’ll see when the new multi-story buildings have had time to find retail tenants, how “interesting” they are. How long would that be? Seems to me they tend to sit idle for the better part of a year after completion, at least. Brooks building’s prime corner space, for example, still empty. Prescott wound up with a not-very-interesting fitness gym. Look at the newer buildings along the south side of 34th into Fremont – see anything interesting there? Maybe your real estate friend thinks this type of thing is interesting, but that bagel joint in the Prescott and PCC in Fremont may be the only two places I’ve been in, out of all the new multi-story mixed use from 45th & Stone down to 34th and Evanston.
Landlords may indeed be marking time and waiting for the chance to build multistory buildings (or in the case of the Greek/sushi place, have impractical dreams of building one anyway without the support of the required upzoning), but if and when they get to go there, don’t expect interesting retail. The money in those developments comes from residential, and the priority for the commercial is to minimize expense and hassle. For example, I talked to someone who sort of talked his way into one of those spots by pretending to be a chain – they don’t like to deal with one-off operators because, you know, they tend to not have a business office with someone who can answer the phone etc., and the management company they hire to run their commercial space doesn’t care for that. I’m sure there’s more to it than that, but just look at what goes in with those buildings and see for yourself.
We have been just around the corner on Bagley since 92, and I can’t remember anything other than the parking lot.
Along the lines of the 45th doughnut hole… Does anyone know what’s going on with the CVS project? I work in SLU and I swear I have seen a 9 story building built in the time they have done some steel work and put a rail around the 2ed floor there. How long are we going to be stuck with this eyesore sitting on the corner?
questioning how density is going to be implemented in the neighborhood does not make one anti-density.
some of the homes recently built in wallingford/tangletown are truly outrageous and i feel for the neighbors.
If there are property line questions, you as a neighbor to a property being developed have input.
this site has photos of some of the homes of which I speak
http://www.onehomeperlot.com/arguments/
That not very interesting gym at Prescott has great potential… too bad when they were prepping to open the sales person wanted to sell me membership because of the tiling in the bathroom!!!! I ended staying with my previous gym and continue to remain there.
it is better than the empty ‘prime’ retail space under that apt building on Stone & 44/43.
Re Uptown Espresso empty lot. The name of the service station was Vic’s Gas Station. It was also called the Lil Stinker station and they had an artist’s sketch of a skunk as the mascot. He sold cheap gas. It was owned by Victor Green. That’s about all I can tell you. Gas may have been around 25 cents a gallon. Unbelievable, I know.
Nice. Thanks for filling in history.
I don’t think the “hole I the donut” phenomenon is a new one, or even a relatively new one. In fact, there are more shops on 45th now than there have been for years. Some may remember that whole stretches of stores on 45th in Wallingford were vacant for years…..I am talking 20 years or more. The group of shops that are now occupied by Feinting Goat and neighbors were vacant for more of the 35 years I have lived here than not. I always wondered why/how a landlord could afford to keep those shops vacant and non productive and still have to pay taxes on them.
There is another side of your story however. That is that if 45th is rezoned and allowed to build taller buildings than now, the value of the land will most certainly increase. This means that the property taxes will also increase, possibly beyond the ability of the current land owners to pay. This may force them to sell and will drive development along 45th. FYI, the same issue is facing the U District, parts of which, like the Ave, may be allowed to have 20 story buildings or more. This will certainly change the character of both places.
Regarding developers waiting for the up-zoning. Duh. That’s exactly the case with a building currently on the market near the Stone/47th area. The commercial agent has said that a few offers have come from developers who will keep the building As Is until density allows for greater heights.
This is actually logical. If you knew you wanted to sell your home, and that it would be torn down when you did, but by waiting two years the value might double, wouldn’t you wait? And, would you put any money into it in the meantime?
That does not mean those landlords are terrible people, they are just making a sound financial decision.
I for one hope that we do NOT allow for greater than 4 story buildings, as that will make 45th dark and claustrophobic.
However, I don’t begrudge the landowners for making a sound financial decision that anyone else would do as well.
Hey mate, how exhaustively did you canvas 45th? There are a number of new and ‘newish’ restaurants, all of which are doing quite well.
* Pam’s Kitchen
* Ramen Man
* Tigerly Ox
* The Octopus Bar
… and more. The only places to eat that have not made it, IMHO, have been pretty bad (Patty’s Egg Nest) or never ever open (that Hawaiian place @ 45th and Wallingford).
I’m really surprised by this article. As far as I can tell 45th has one of the most competitive eatery scenes north of the cut.
OK, zero in on the “new restaurants and shops struggling to survive” and rise to the defense of some Wallingford restaurants, but whatever you think of these restaurants’ prospects, it doesn’t look to me like that’s what the article is about. Apparently 45th has these restaurants instead of “interesting new businesses.” Not perfectly clear on what those would be, especially if they’re supposed to be in evidence on Stone, but his real estate agent friend seems to be implying that they can’t find a place on 45th because they’d need more from the landlords – longer leases, building updates, etc. – so instead we get restaurants.
My dad owned the Flying A station ac toss the street from Vic Green. They were in a constant gas war. The price tanked at 18 cents a gallon. My husband worked for Vic in the early 60’s.
Interesting article. There may be some truth to it, but 45th Street is doing just fine. There are four projects under construction right now Mack Urban, Bedrooms & More, Seamonster, and the CVS). Redevelopment along Stone Way is more palatable for the developer due to the availability of land for sale, lower prices due to the low cost buildings in place, and the ability to assemble multiple properties for large projects.
Even without an the HALA zone landlords wouldn’t be willing to pay for a lot of tenant improvements because the land is already more valuable then the present cash flow would suggest. If you look at the assessed value of most properties along 45th the improvements are given a value of $1 because the highest and best use is redevelopment.
It is a good point that maybe the HALA rezone has led to owners not selling their property. Since few properties are chnaging hands then developers aren’t able to pick up tracts large enough for new development.
Great comments, Donn & Brady. The thing that makes me sad is that when the upzone comes along, our funky neighborhood businesses can no longer afford the rent in the upscaled buildings, so we get tanning salons, cell phone stores, etc. And don’t even get me started on the loss of the “homeowners’/remodelers’ paradise” on Stone Way. Guess we’ll all have to go out the the big box stores to buy the same supplies. Oh — more cars on the freeways in our “robust infrastructure” city.
Where’s the evidence that the development on Stone is leading to an influx of big box stores?
For every Subway, there’s a Russell’s, Whale Wins, Joule, Stoneway Cafe, Manolin, Tutta Bella, Miir, So I ask again… where’s the evidence??
Sure there have been the arrival of chain drug stores and banks on 45th. But name a neighborhood anywhere but rural America that has locally owned drug stores and banks. Those entities simply don’t exist anymore. So I’m fine with my chain drug store and banks because I’d rather not have to drive to the u-district to fulfill a prescription. So name a single big box store (that’s not drug store or bank) that has recently arrived to 45th and/or stone.
Lest I remind you that a Subway and a McDonalds have actually LEFT Wallingford around the time development started to pick up steam.
Not “influx” – note “we’ll have to go out”, “more cars in the freeway”, etc. The big box stores won’t come here, they’ll stay out on an auto oriented strip. Just like in the burbs. What comes here is big boxes of apartments, and fitness gyms, in a commercial zone where there were previously electrical, plumbing, paint, glass, roofing. And no doubt soon a level of traffic congestion that would have been trouble for those businesses anyway. On the bright side, we do still have a paint store, couple of hardwares, and Morgan’s is still in business, just out in Crown Hill or somewhere.
PLEASE give me a commercial zone over plumbing stores.
We’re in a city. Traffic happens. That’s why most cities have a robust public transportation system.
I don’t see HALA, a fairly recent phenomenon, as having much to do with the historical pace of development/turnover on 45th.
But I do agree with the comment about not letting 45th St. get built upwards, as it would put the street in deep shadow for much of the year, in addition to creating an east-west wind tunnel effect. If a rezone comes up, residents/businesses might want to push that point.
Good point, Davidyao. Market street in Ballard is much wider than 45th, so the taller buildings seem to work okay there. It seems to me that Seattle council does not have a big picture vision, rather they operate on lurching from one idea to the next and patching it up as they go.
Even if they were trying their darndest to do the best job for the city’s long term future and not just cash in on the gold rush, you wouldn’t want or expect a group of people elected to city council to be urban design experts. Maybe you would expect that expertise somewhere in the DPD, but even if it’s really there – trust the DPD, or have the elected officials do an amateur job? Tough call.
I’m from the Bay Area. I have myself witnessed the dramatic change of the neighborhood I grew up in. I’ve since been pushed out due to rising housing costs (if you think Seattle is expensive, median price of a house in Silicon Valley is DOUBLE that of Seattle). And so I certainly can sympathize with residents who are in a state of shock at the change happening in Seattle.
What I don’t understand is… ya’ll really prefer a row of dilapidated roofing and paint stores over great restaurants, bars and skateparks? If this is the baseline of which you stand, then I’m not sure we’ll ever agree on anything.
Oh yes. I mean, Rodda (the paint store) wasn’t such a big deal. The last time I was in there, particularly, the guy who “helped” me wasn’t really good for much. But Morgan’s (plumbing and electrical) has been a great resource over the years. (And neither of them were dilapidated, that’s BS.) The restaurants? Well, we already had the restaurants you mentioned earlier, concurrent with Morgan’s, and I’ve been to most of them. The newer ones are mighty proud of their menu items, and weirdly stingy too – at Manolin I am pretty sure you’d have to order everything on the menu to get a full meal. When I went to Morgan’s, I often came home with something that would help make things in my house work. When I come home from these fancy restaurants I’m just lighter in the wallet, and half inclined to make dinner. Ballard is really the place for people who like that kind of thing.
The same Manolin that Bon Appetite named the 9th best new restaurant in America? I’ll take that over a plumbing store any day of the week.
http://www.bonappetit.com/restaurants-travel/best-new-restaurants/article/manolin-no-9?mbid=social_facebook
They must have stopped by for a snack.
They don’t really have anything to do with the plumbing store, though. Those stores are in each case being replaced by multistory residential, probably each featuring fitness clubs and banks for retail street front, though I’m not sure they weren’t all allowed some “live/work” units which will be blank spots like at Prescott.
I think the varied expectations in this comments list shows that there’s room for a variety of buildings and businesses in the greater Wallingford area. We need a meal and a bucket of paint (and some ant traps) that we can pick up locally. Do we want to keep our light industrial (apparently not, from reading these) , services or shops? Are we going to serve our homeless population or just move them around like pawns? And who do those shops and services cater to, homeowners or renters? We’re an edge area; mostly single family units, duplexes and apartment buildings under 20 units. We still fix our own faucets, but we aren’t replacing our own car parts. We don’t go to the library to read (there are no books there), and we enjoy watching videos of rats in the bulk foods department of QFC (we are a smirky lot).
What do we want to be? If we can figure that mix out, we can control and enjoy the inevitable change that is coming our way.
Just a small clarification–commercial tenants anywhere, not just on 45th Street, have to pay for any capital improvements beyond the basic box. It’s certainly a further drawback to a short-term lease, but understand that this is not an unusual hardship demanded by only Wallingford landlords.