KIRO ran a piece earlier this week about the intersection at NE 42nd and Thackeray, where drivers are apparently either ignoring or not seeing the stop sign.
The article quotes Allison Bay as saying “the problem is many drivers can’t see the stop signs because they are obstructed by trees. Drivers also have a hard time seeing the stop lines painted on the street, because they have faded,” and when they “staked out the location”, KIRO confirms that many drivers are not stopping:
“When we asked the drivers who failed to stop why they didn’t stop, some said they couldn’t see the stop sign or the stop lines.”
OK, so drivers ignoring stop signs: disturbing and perhaps dangerous.
But you want to talk amazing? According to SDOT, “[e]ach stop line is estimated to cost about $1,000 to paint.”
$1,000 to paint a line on the street? Amazing.
Interesting, the very day of KIRO’s story I was almost broadsided by a VERY large box truck that was casually running that very stop sign while I had the right-of-way. Thankfully I assume (defensively) that most drivers don’t pay attention to their circumstances on the road, and I still look both ways even when I have the right-of-way. It probably saved me from serious injury or possible death.
Mayor McSchwinn has surely spent more money on paint and labor painting bike lanes everywhere creating many unsafe situations that may end up costing a lot more in lives. Meanwhile he is choosing to selectively repair streets and avoid doing anything but add a bike lane.
The issue here is its not the paint. Its the probable 4 or 5 man crew to paint one 8′ line on the road. They need two flaggers a giant paint machine. Probably a separate survey crew to make sure the line is in the correct place and a whole lotta money for the overpaid unionized pensions the city has. Welcome to collectivism’s ultimate goal – Seattle government policy. Cram them in and reduce the ability to drive. Force the people on to public transportation. What a great plan (not) for improving the quality of life in Seattle.
It looks like you’ve got a funky link to KIRO piece, Jordan. Try this one.
Sadly, this became a story only after the KIRO reporter responded to the recent carjacking on that corner, and witnessed several cars running the stop sign. He contacted a couple of neighbors who have been rattling SDOT’s cage for over a year now, trying to get improved infrastructure at the intersection.
The cost to paint the line is minor, so blaming unions for the lack of action is obviously misplaced. As is the current mayor’s focus on bike- and pedestrian-friendly infrastructure. Thackeray is a sharrowed bike route, so if Mayor McGinn was truly “Mayor McSchwinn”, you think he’d be down there painting the line himself!
Rather, the hold-up to getting this problem fixed is (as the KIRO story points out) the emphasis on focusing on areas where accidents have already happened. I suppose this makes some sense, but proactively paying $1,000 now to paint a line is a lot cheaper than the medical bills a pedestrian or cyclist (me?) might face when hit by a car that is running that stop sign.
SDOT’s cages will continue to be rattled, but if they continue to be unresponsive, don’t be surprised if you see some neighbors with a can of paint and a couple of brushes taking guerrilla action!
Thank you Allison, Doug, David Ham, Jordan! Here is an excerpt of a message I sent to the KIRO reporter (David Ham):
. . .Thank you! And thanks for the noticing while covering the carjacking story. How did that turn out, by the way. Is the victim ok, was her car found?
There are follow-up aspects to the 42nd Street story so please consider following this through to a good resolution. That SDOT estimates $1000 each for repainting 2 stop lines is a story if you ask me. (I assume they believe they would have to work with the county and close an arterial with a county bus route, which is not the case. Two short sections of 42nd would have to be closed, but could be done on separate days. Close short section of street, paint line, watch paint dry.)
Tree foliage does appear to play a role but a very small one, by the way, and why SDOT is volunteering to trim planting strip trees that are the abutting homeowner’s responsibility makes me think they want this to be a Tree Foliage Problem. (I say that as a SDOT-trained Volunteer Tree Steward who has planted hundreds of trees in Wallingford since 1991 – none of which block stop signs – as It’s a Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood Tree Planting Project.)
There are also missing landing pads for where corner-implied crosswalks lead to a non-corner small rectangle of concrete across the street. Were they in place (I think some homeowners don’t understand that small concrete pads on their planting strips were installed there by the city . . .) there would be several safer places to cross 42nd than at the stop sign corners.
Traffic calming efforts in 1998 accomplished a lot to make that leg of Thackeray safer. I feel like this is a great final step. Thanks again . . .
We have had people hit here at the intersection of 55th, Meridian, and Kenwood. I work in healthcare and was there holding the neck of one since I feared she had a c-spine fracture. The woman that hit her lives a coupld of blocks away and was known for not stopping.
I emailed to find out how to get our lines repainted and the tress trimmed so people can see the stop signs. I got emailed that it is a money issue, but they would forward the request.
How many people have to be hit? I am happy to go paint the lines, for free. My husband works for a sign company and is happy to paint the lines.
I laugh and say that if everyone just at this intersection was given a ticket for parking the wrong way on the street (which is illegal since you pull out against traffic), talking on their phone while driving, or texting, or speeding, not using your turn signal, not stopping, parking too close to the intersection, etc, I would not have to pay a 520 fee since there would be plenty of money to build the bridge.
In the light of Packet’s comment, the answer is obvious: Abolish government and let the people do it on their own. And save a lot of tax money, to boot.
Chris (5.) Is this the same letter you received? This version below is from one of several SDOT departments that sent it, another came from the Citizen’s Service Bureau. All were after the walkandbike SDOT people asked for suggestions!
>>>>Thank you for writing to the City of Seattle regarding your request to have the stop lines repainted at these two intersections:
1. Thackeray Place NE and NE 42nd Street, and
2. NE 42nd Street and 2nd Avenue NE (east leg).
The Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) was asked to respond to you. We value the contribution that residents bring to transportation issues.
SDOT, like other departments in this economy, has faced financial challenges. Taxes and other funding sources we rely on, like the gas tax, have been declining over the last several years. As the economy continued to decline, so did our ability to implement projects and keep up with basic maintenance needs of existing traffic operations assets. In 2006, voters passed the Bridging the Gap Levy, which has been very helpful in maintaining some funding for operations and maintenance as well as projects. Even that funding is not enough, and the gap between our transportation budget and the projects we would like to implement is wide.
While it’s not city policy to wait for collisions to occur prior to reviewing or implementing safety improvements, the historical incidence of reported collisions is an indicator of whether or not a street or intersection is operating as planned for ordinary travel. SDOT analyzes the frequency and nature of reported collisions to help assess general traffic safety and make decisions on whether or not new traffic signs, traffic circles, or other safety enhancements should be considered. There have been no reported collisions in the last three years, and there appears no pattern of unsafe behavior; which suggests that vehicles are able to maneuver through the street and intersection following traffic laws. SDOT will not make any engineering changes at this time.
Thank you again for writing. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact our office directly at [email protected] or (206) 684-7583. We will be happy to assist you further.
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The $1000.00 is disengenuous. I worked for king
County as a flagger as a college student. We
Striped many stop bars a day. Some days it
was all we did. Is SDOT saying it costs &1000.00
to do each bar? Maybe if you take amortize
All the salaries and white striped paint over
The course of a year. No way does each stop
Bar add an additional 1K to the city. What we really need
Is SPD to stake out Wallingford stop and yield
Signs and issue some big tickets.
Hey, I’ll paint the line for $900!!!
Chris, I will help you paint the stripes.
Anyone want to donate the paint?
Or bail us out when we get arrested for defacing public property?
This could become a fun community project: we could have a
painting potluck, get to know each other, stand around, have
coffee and watch each other work.
I’d paint for nothing — and I have to say that it seems like we need some kind of “good driving again” program. People seem to think that STOP signs are a mere suggestion these days. I am shocked at how many times I see people cruising right through them….and that happens with no trees in sight and clear lines. Driving seems pretty scary these days.
Neglected to indicate that I’d donate my labor (that means I’d paint for free, too).
Paint is not what they use on stop bars and crosswalks. It is some kind of high tech epoxy sprinkled with retro-reflective sparkly dust.
Many thanks to the Seattle Arborist’s Office for sending a staff arborist out to trim the planting strip tree on 42nd today. No repainted white stop lines (yet) but now the stop sign to the east of Thackeray at 42nd is even more visible than before . . .
Mayor McGinn sent an e-mail that announced he has asked SDOT to repaint white stop lines at Thackeray AND Latona (on 42nd). Way to go! Has it happened yet?
well, school is starting.. maybe.. and so someone needs to call