Hi, I wanted to let you know about the response I received to my request (last September!!) to add crosswalks on Wallingford Avenue and 41st street, closest to Hamilton Middle School’s main entrance. My son walks to school every day, straight up the hill from our home on Sunnyside, along with many other students, and they all tend to cross the street either there or on 42nd. Since they need to be in their seats and working by the 7:50 a.m. bell, this requires walking in almost total darkness for many months of the school year.
According to the note below, the Department of Transportation plans to add a crosswalk during the Summer months, with curb ramps and warning signs. Hooray!
All the best,
Dorothy
———-
Thank you for writing to the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) regarding your request for crosswalks at the intersections of Wallingford Avenue North at North 41st and North 42nd Streets. We apologize for the delay in responding.
We have some good news for you! SDOT is planning to install a marked crosswalk on Wallingford Avenue North at North 41st Street equipped with curb ramps, and we will also install curb bulbs on either side of Wallingford Avenue North. In addition, school crosswalk signs will be placed at the crosswalk itself with advance warning signs alerting drivers to the presence of the crosswalk. Because this work is weather dependent, we will install these new improvements during our summer project season.
Thank you again for writing. If you have questions, please feel free to contact SDOT’s Brian Dougherty directly at [email protected](206) 684-5124. Mr. Dougherty will be happy to assist you further.
Sincerely,
Gretchen Conrad
Traffic Operations, Investigations and Implementation
Seattle Department of Transportation
Chalk marks for curb bulbs and sidewalk ramps on Wallingford Avenue at N. 41st St.
Great news! Thanks for your work on this, Dorothy.
My neighbors and I have had the opposite response to our requests to get 2 white stop lines repainted where Thackeray Place NE turns west on NE 42nd Street and merges onto 2nd Avenue NE where this arterial continues south.
That intersection is very confusing to begin with (it is the route of the southbound #26 bus). There are 2 stop signs that bookend this bend in the road and the white stop lines that abut the signs have worn away. There are close calls and confusion at these corners every day. Some neighbors even sit on nearby planting strips on sunny days waving handmade STOP signs, cheering and booing as they watch what so far has not resulted in a reported accident (one reason SDOT gave for not giving this corner attention at this time). What we are requesting is that 2 white stop lines be repainted. They are about a foot wide and maybe 10 feet long. Besides abutting an arterial, they are on the walking route to and from John Stanford elementary. Both faded white stop lines run north/south. Perhaps of lots of Wallingford residents contacted SDOT via their website form (or wrote letters): http://seattle-p1csrprodcwi.motorolasolutions.com/ServiceRequest.mvc/SRIntakeStep2?id=TRGENINQ&templateid=&guid=3f70b35a1f9040b8a2cb72e5c2421a34&srID=
@yesyes I will paste in the body of one of the letters/e-mails I received below, hope this clarifies it for you. Perhaps you have something constructive to add to this topic such as what you have observed at these intersections : )
>>>>>Thank you for writing to the City of Seattle regarding your request to have the stop lines repainted at these two intersections:
1. Thackeray Place NE and NE 42nd Street, and
2. NE 42nd Street and 2nd Avenue NE (east leg).
The Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) was asked to respond to you. We value the contribution that residents bring to transportation issues.
SDOT, like other departments in this economy, has faced financial challenges. Taxes and other funding sources we rely on, like the gas tax, have been declining over the last several years. As the economy continued to decline, so did our ability to implement projects and keep up with basic maintenance needs of existing traffic operations assets. In 2006, voters passed the Bridging the Gap Levy, which has been very helpful in maintaining some funding for operations and maintenance as well as projects. Even that funding is not enough, and the gap between our transportation budget and the projects we would like to implement is wide.
While it’s not city policy to wait for collisions to occur prior to reviewing or implementing safety improvements, the historical incidence of reported collisions is an indicator of whether or not a street or intersection is operating as planned for ordinary travel. SDOT analyzes the frequency and nature of reported collisions to help assess general traffic safety and make decisions on whether or not new traffic signs, traffic circles, or other safety enhancements should be considered. There have been no reported collisions in the last three years, and there appears no pattern of unsafe behavior; which suggests that vehicles are able to maneuver through the street and intersection following traffic laws. SDOT will not make any engineering changes at this time.
Thank you again for writing. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact our office directly at [email protected] or (206) 684-7583. We will be happy to assist you further.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
excuse me,, I was clarifying. I did NOT understand you ” opposite”.
My constructive wpords are,”don’t assume someone is being rude if they ask what seemed apparent to the writer. They he or she may simply need and want to understand.
oh, and maybe yo uought to address your need and concern to the person who granted the other wish. There are many hands and eyes and opinions in the city. Some say yes and some say no.
Two staff people at SDOT have responded with their version of the letter quoted in 3. (My initial request was in response to a SDOT call for suggestions since there isn’t a “Re-paint Lines Ranger” department like for potholes.) I have received a telephone call telling me that this issue will not make it to their work plans for 2013 from another SDOT staff person, same from a staff person from the Citizen’s Service Bureau, no response to a query sent to the Seattle Mayor’s Office and, on a positive note, a City Council member offering to help but that got nowhere as well.
Slow and steady wins the race. What I am attempting to do is make my neighborhood a safer place.
What I decidedly am not doing is attempting is offend people who write comments on the Wallyhood blog.
From a driver’s standpoint, I’m a little concerned about these, actually, and I think they’ll take some getting used to. This happens to be my street and when I’ve tried to swing on to 41st past the chalk marks, I’ve found myself really too far over on N. 41st. I worry about cars approaching Wallingford Avenue from the opposite direction. Sometimes they aren’t completely visible (if a car is parked on N. 41st facing west, for example). What’s more, I have to swing wide to go around the chalk marks, make sure I’m not too far over, and then my driveway is immediately on the left side.
But if this will help slow drivers down, I’m all for it because there have been too many times where either I or my son and our dog have been nearly run down by Hamilton parents cutting that corner at ridiculous speeds.
I’m glad SDOT will complete this during the summer so I’ll have a few weeks to get used to the new maneuver, without school traffic coming from the opposite direction!
The south side of 45th above I-5 has a nest of overturned shopping carts and a pile of mattresses. This mess was NOT there 2 weeks ago. How do we get this removed?
Quote: NancyM
… and there appears no pattern of unsafe behavior; which suggests that vehicles are able to maneuver through the street and intersection following traffic laws.
This statement suggests the city hasn’t looked at the intersection and traffic flow. Spend a day observing the 42nd and Thackeray/Latona intersections and it will be clear that about half of people ignore the stop signs.
The city could argue this isn’t unsafe behavior but people clearly aren’t following traffic laws.
Aha – I hadn’t even noticed the that lines had worn away. I have had three close calls so far this year on my commute – both at the bend in the arterial on 42nd.
Maybe 1 in 10 drivers do it wrong and those who do seem to fall in two camps — they either they blow through the intersection without stopping at all, or they assume it’s a four-way stop, so they stop, and then pull out striaght into oncoming traffic.
I’d be happy with either 1) a repainted line or 2) an “oncoming traffic does not stop” sigh. I’ll write SDOT re #2 and maybe they’ll do both. Thanks for the tip on where to write.
Would this work?
Signage in addition to the existing stop sign (and repainting the white stop line) at the east-facing stop on 42nd/2nd that reads:
1) “Right Turn Only” (eliminating eastbound traffic on 42nd in the “Little Bend” intersection being discussed here). Oops, engineering change suggestion!
Also, a reminder: the posted “Arterial Turns” sign on Thackeray north of 42nd has a speed limit sign beneath it for the right turn on to 42nd: 10mph.
Thanks to everyone who “limbed up” their planting strip trees so sightline visibility is increased.
The first thing to do is get the city to admit there is a problem. So far they haven’t been willing to do that. About ten years ago I talked to one of the transportation people and he came out and observed the traffic flow for at least part of a day. He responded saying he didn’t see any problem with the way things were. I suspect the city is still going by the same report he wrote.
More signs aren’t likely to help much. It’s my opinion that the violators are those that either live in the neighborhood or regularly cut through to avoid 45th. If they are ok ignoring stop signs, I’m sure right turn only signs won’t have much effect. It’s pretty easy to identify those who are unfamiliar with the arterial flow as they can’t tell who has the right of way and usually stop regardless.
My perfect solution would be to dead end 42nd at 2nd, Thackeray, and Latona which would establish the north/south arterials. Since we all know that isn’t going to happen, I think the next best solution is speed bumps at the stop signs. Knowing the city doesn’t like speed bumps, I don’t see much chance of that happening either.
I’ve actually given up on improving the safety along 42nd/Thackeray/Latona. I had an email conversation last year with someone from the city working safety in school zones. He was more concerned about cutting down shrubbery than people stopping at stop signs that are next to crosswalks.
It’s unfortunate but until there is a serious accident or some child gets run over in the crosswalk on the way to school, the city won’t recognize the problem.
A first step is to get two white stop lines repainted. It was just pointed out to me that when Thackeray and then 2nd got repaved a couple years ago they skipped repaving the little stretch of 42nd that is being discussed here and apparently it has lots of potholes . . . I suppose it was skipped because the funding was for repaving arterials that the (county) busses run on and somehow 42nd Street got skipped.
It took a long time to have traffic calming features and a 20mph Metro bus speed limit (and Seattle Public School busses too) implemented so perhaps these corners will get good attention eventually, too.
TomH: I don’t understand your perfect solution (more detail please) and I doubt that speed bumps will be installed (for sure not on the arterial on which the bus rides). But I agree that SDOT (and perhaps KKMetro) need to recognize that a lot of thought and witnessing have gone into these requests. (Traffic calming on Thackeray started when SDOT told us to plant trees since “they tend to narrow the visual corridor.” We did, starting in 1991. Thousands.
Regarding the crosswalk at 41st: maybe I missed something? Why are kids not being taught to cross at the signal at 40th? The current crosswalk at 43rd was carefully selected as being at the crown of the hill with good visibility both directions. Isn’t there concern about having a crosswalk so close to a signaled crosswalk with the potential for right turns off 40th not seeing the crosswalk proposed for 41st?
Just sayin’. Be careful what you wish for. If it were my kid, I would tell them to cross at the light.
Nancy’s dilemma sounds like it has a far greater hazard. How can the City say they don’t have funding to reprint existing stop lines (and clear the sight lines for the stop signs), yet they DO have the funds to paint a crosswalk (essentially about 8 stop lines painted sideways) within about 300 feet of an existing signalized crosswalk? Which seems more urgent?
Sometimes choices made by our departments never cease to amaze me! Absurd! Is that Buttle or Tuttle?
I was suggesting dead ending 42nd at the east and west sides of the 2nd-Thackeray and Latona arterials. This would effectively eliminate traffic on 42nd between 2nd and Latona, except for the arterials.. Not something that is going to happen.
The speed bumps would be used in place of the white lines you want painted. While I think repainting the white lines would have some effect, I think it would be minimal. I think there are some that honestly miss the stop sign at 42nd and Thackeray because it is a little difficult to see.
And just for the record, only one side of 2nd was repaved between 40th and 42nd.
@NancyM, Given your passion for this problem and the difficulty that you’ve had in getting the city government to solve it, I’d suggest that you channel the spirit of Wallingford pioneers, buy some street paint and do the job yourself. If you pull in some of your interested neighbors then it would probably be fun and the costs could be split all around. Street paint can be found pretty easily. For example, here’s some:
@Marley’s Ghost, The local traffic code considers crosswalks to exist at any intersection, whether or not there is any paint on the ground. In other words, the 41st St crosswalk is not being “proposed” so much as “improved.”
I wrote SDOT requesting that a traffic engineer evaluate the intersection. I received the following response a few days later.
My summary: “we’ve already evaluated it. Not high pri given limited funding, but we’ll check it out next year.”
Actual response:
SDOT has limited funding available to make improvements to our transportation system, and we must prioritize our projects based on safety considerations; and on the priorities identified in our transportation plans. We evaluated the intersection of Thackeray Place NE and NE 42nd Street, including a review of the safety history, and we regret that it is not a high enough priority for us to make any changes at this time. However, we will add this location to our 2014 list of potential remarks.
Thank you again for writing. If you have any questions or additional concerns, please feel free to contact our office directly at [email protected] or (206) 684-7583.
Great news! Thanks for your work on this, Dorothy.
My neighbors and I have had the opposite response to our requests to get 2 white stop lines repainted where Thackeray Place NE turns west on NE 42nd Street and merges onto 2nd Avenue NE where this arterial continues south.
That intersection is very confusing to begin with (it is the route of the southbound #26 bus). There are 2 stop signs that bookend this bend in the road and the white stop lines that abut the signs have worn away. There are close calls and confusion at these corners every day. Some neighbors even sit on nearby planting strips on sunny days waving handmade STOP signs, cheering and booing as they watch what so far has not resulted in a reported accident (one reason SDOT gave for not giving this corner attention at this time). What we are requesting is that 2 white stop lines be repainted. They are about a foot wide and maybe 10 feet long. Besides abutting an arterial, they are on the walking route to and from John Stanford elementary. Both faded white stop lines run north/south. Perhaps of lots of Wallingford residents contacted SDOT via their website form (or wrote letters):
http://seattle-p1csrprodcwi.motorolasolutions.com/ServiceRequest.mvc/SRIntakeStep2?id=TRGENINQ&templateid=&guid=3f70b35a1f9040b8a2cb72e5c2421a34&srID=
What is an opposite response? No? Or nothing?
@yesyes I will paste in the body of one of the letters/e-mails I received below, hope this clarifies it for you. Perhaps you have something constructive to add to this topic such as what you have observed at these intersections : )
>>>>>Thank you for writing to the City of Seattle regarding your request to have the stop lines repainted at these two intersections:
1. Thackeray Place NE and NE 42nd Street, and
2. NE 42nd Street and 2nd Avenue NE (east leg).
The Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) was asked to respond to you. We value the contribution that residents bring to transportation issues.
SDOT, like other departments in this economy, has faced financial challenges. Taxes and other funding sources we rely on, like the gas tax, have been declining over the last several years. As the economy continued to decline, so did our ability to implement projects and keep up with basic maintenance needs of existing traffic operations assets. In 2006, voters passed the Bridging the Gap Levy, which has been very helpful in maintaining some funding for operations and maintenance as well as projects. Even that funding is not enough, and the gap between our transportation budget and the projects we would like to implement is wide.
While it’s not city policy to wait for collisions to occur prior to reviewing or implementing safety improvements, the historical incidence of reported collisions is an indicator of whether or not a street or intersection is operating as planned for ordinary travel. SDOT analyzes the frequency and nature of reported collisions to help assess general traffic safety and make decisions on whether or not new traffic signs, traffic circles, or other safety enhancements should be considered. There have been no reported collisions in the last three years, and there appears no pattern of unsafe behavior; which suggests that vehicles are able to maneuver through the street and intersection following traffic laws. SDOT will not make any engineering changes at this time.
Thank you again for writing. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact our office directly at [email protected] or (206) 684-7583. We will be happy to assist you further.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
excuse me,, I was clarifying. I did NOT understand you ” opposite”.
My constructive wpords are,”don’t assume someone is being rude if they ask what seemed apparent to the writer. They he or she may simply need and want to understand.
oh, and maybe yo uought to address your need and concern to the person who granted the other wish. There are many hands and eyes and opinions in the city. Some say yes and some say no.
Two staff people at SDOT have responded with their version of the letter quoted in 3. (My initial request was in response to a SDOT call for suggestions since there isn’t a “Re-paint Lines Ranger” department like for potholes.) I have received a telephone call telling me that this issue will not make it to their work plans for 2013 from another SDOT staff person, same from a staff person from the Citizen’s Service Bureau, no response to a query sent to the Seattle Mayor’s Office and, on a positive note, a City Council member offering to help but that got nowhere as well.
Slow and steady wins the race. What I am attempting to do is make my neighborhood a safer place.
What I decidedly am not doing is attempting is offend people who write comments on the Wallyhood blog.
curb bulbs? are they like the awesome bus-bulbs that jut out into the street?
@james, yes. If you click on this link, you’ll be able to see an illustration:
http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/CurbBulbs.htm
From a driver’s standpoint, I’m a little concerned about these, actually, and I think they’ll take some getting used to. This happens to be my street and when I’ve tried to swing on to 41st past the chalk marks, I’ve found myself really too far over on N. 41st. I worry about cars approaching Wallingford Avenue from the opposite direction. Sometimes they aren’t completely visible (if a car is parked on N. 41st facing west, for example). What’s more, I have to swing wide to go around the chalk marks, make sure I’m not too far over, and then my driveway is immediately on the left side.
But if this will help slow drivers down, I’m all for it because there have been too many times where either I or my son and our dog have been nearly run down by Hamilton parents cutting that corner at ridiculous speeds.
I’m glad SDOT will complete this during the summer so I’ll have a few weeks to get used to the new maneuver, without school traffic coming from the opposite direction!
Thanks for the link, NancyM. As a bicyclist I’ve had many close calls at that very intersection. I just emailed my concerns to the City.
The south side of 45th above I-5 has a nest of overturned shopping carts and a pile of mattresses. This mess was NOT there 2 weeks ago. How do we get this removed?
Quote: NancyM
… and there appears no pattern of unsafe behavior; which suggests that vehicles are able to maneuver through the street and intersection following traffic laws.
This statement suggests the city hasn’t looked at the intersection and traffic flow. Spend a day observing the 42nd and Thackeray/Latona intersections and it will be clear that about half of people ignore the stop signs.
The city could argue this isn’t unsafe behavior but people clearly aren’t following traffic laws.
Aha – I hadn’t even noticed the that lines had worn away. I have had three close calls so far this year on my commute – both at the bend in the arterial on 42nd.
Maybe 1 in 10 drivers do it wrong and those who do seem to fall in two camps — they either they blow through the intersection without stopping at all, or they assume it’s a four-way stop, so they stop, and then pull out striaght into oncoming traffic.
I’d be happy with either 1) a repainted line or 2) an “oncoming traffic does not stop” sigh. I’ll write SDOT re #2 and maybe they’ll do both. Thanks for the tip on where to write.
Would this work?
Signage in addition to the existing stop sign (and repainting the white stop line) at the east-facing stop on 42nd/2nd that reads:
1) “Right Turn Only” (eliminating eastbound traffic on 42nd in the “Little Bend” intersection being discussed here). Oops, engineering change suggestion!
Also, a reminder: the posted “Arterial Turns” sign on Thackeray north of 42nd has a speed limit sign beneath it for the right turn on to 42nd: 10mph.
Thanks to everyone who “limbed up” their planting strip trees so sightline visibility is increased.
The first thing to do is get the city to admit there is a problem. So far they haven’t been willing to do that. About ten years ago I talked to one of the transportation people and he came out and observed the traffic flow for at least part of a day. He responded saying he didn’t see any problem with the way things were. I suspect the city is still going by the same report he wrote.
More signs aren’t likely to help much. It’s my opinion that the violators are those that either live in the neighborhood or regularly cut through to avoid 45th. If they are ok ignoring stop signs, I’m sure right turn only signs won’t have much effect. It’s pretty easy to identify those who are unfamiliar with the arterial flow as they can’t tell who has the right of way and usually stop regardless.
My perfect solution would be to dead end 42nd at 2nd, Thackeray, and Latona which would establish the north/south arterials. Since we all know that isn’t going to happen, I think the next best solution is speed bumps at the stop signs. Knowing the city doesn’t like speed bumps, I don’t see much chance of that happening either.
I’ve actually given up on improving the safety along 42nd/Thackeray/Latona. I had an email conversation last year with someone from the city working safety in school zones. He was more concerned about cutting down shrubbery than people stopping at stop signs that are next to crosswalks.
It’s unfortunate but until there is a serious accident or some child gets run over in the crosswalk on the way to school, the city won’t recognize the problem.
A first step is to get two white stop lines repainted. It was just pointed out to me that when Thackeray and then 2nd got repaved a couple years ago they skipped repaving the little stretch of 42nd that is being discussed here and apparently it has lots of potholes . . . I suppose it was skipped because the funding was for repaving arterials that the (county) busses run on and somehow 42nd Street got skipped.
It took a long time to have traffic calming features and a 20mph Metro bus speed limit (and Seattle Public School busses too) implemented so perhaps these corners will get good attention eventually, too.
TomH: I don’t understand your perfect solution (more detail please) and I doubt that speed bumps will be installed (for sure not on the arterial on which the bus rides). But I agree that SDOT (and perhaps KKMetro) need to recognize that a lot of thought and witnessing have gone into these requests. (Traffic calming on Thackeray started when SDOT told us to plant trees since “they tend to narrow the visual corridor.” We did, starting in 1991. Thousands.
Thanks for this! I was hoping to start the request process for a crosswalk on 56th! Now I know who to contact!
Regarding the crosswalk at 41st: maybe I missed something? Why are kids not being taught to cross at the signal at 40th? The current crosswalk at 43rd was carefully selected as being at the crown of the hill with good visibility both directions. Isn’t there concern about having a crosswalk so close to a signaled crosswalk with the potential for right turns off 40th not seeing the crosswalk proposed for 41st?
Just sayin’. Be careful what you wish for. If it were my kid, I would tell them to cross at the light.
Nancy’s dilemma sounds like it has a far greater hazard. How can the City say they don’t have funding to reprint existing stop lines (and clear the sight lines for the stop signs), yet they DO have the funds to paint a crosswalk (essentially about 8 stop lines painted sideways) within about 300 feet of an existing signalized crosswalk? Which seems more urgent?
Sometimes choices made by our departments never cease to amaze me! Absurd! Is that Buttle or Tuttle?
Nancy
There is no perfect solution.
I was suggesting dead ending 42nd at the east and west sides of the 2nd-Thackeray and Latona arterials. This would effectively eliminate traffic on 42nd between 2nd and Latona, except for the arterials.. Not something that is going to happen.
The speed bumps would be used in place of the white lines you want painted. While I think repainting the white lines would have some effect, I think it would be minimal. I think there are some that honestly miss the stop sign at 42nd and Thackeray because it is a little difficult to see.
And just for the record, only one side of 2nd was repaved between 40th and 42nd.
@NancyM, Given your passion for this problem and the difficulty that you’ve had in getting the city government to solve it, I’d suggest that you channel the spirit of Wallingford pioneers, buy some street paint and do the job yourself. If you pull in some of your interested neighbors then it would probably be fun and the costs could be split all around. Street paint can be found pretty easily. For example, here’s some:
http://tinyurl.com/cg5mf6b
@Marley’s Ghost, The local traffic code considers crosswalks to exist at any intersection, whether or not there is any paint on the ground. In other words, the 41st St crosswalk is not being “proposed” so much as “improved.”
I wrote SDOT requesting that a traffic engineer evaluate the intersection. I received the following response a few days later.
My summary: “we’ve already evaluated it. Not high pri given limited funding, but we’ll check it out next year.”
Actual response:
SDOT has limited funding available to make improvements to our transportation system, and we must prioritize our projects based on safety considerations; and on the priorities identified in our transportation plans. We evaluated the intersection of Thackeray Place NE and NE 42nd Street, including a review of the safety history, and we regret that it is not a high enough priority for us to make any changes at this time. However, we will add this location to our 2014 list of potential remarks.
Thank you again for writing. If you have any questions or additional concerns, please feel free to contact our office directly at [email protected] or (206) 684-7583.