An anonymous tipster writes:
Given the recent break-ins or attempted break-ins, I was wondering if anyone else has been getting visits from a couple of ladies who knock on the door with a pitch about some kind of entrepreneurship thing. We had two visits yesterday (one at the front door, one at the back door about an hour later) and another visit this evening (about 7:45 p.m.). Last night was a different lady than tonight, but the stories were similar. The first lady said something about wanting money to get back on her feet, and the lady tonight said she wasn’t accepting donations; otherwise, both ladies talked a blue streak — the schpiel seems like when people sell magazine subscriptions. Neither had any literature or any other credible documentation.
I hate to be overly pessimistic, but I used to be a reporter, and used to cover stories like this — the people who knock on the door essentially case the neighborhood looking for when the houses are empty, and then they send in the people who do the burglaries. I called the Seattle PD non-emergency number, but was routed to the North Precinct. I kind of expected them to blow me off, but the lady I talked to took it pretty seriously, actually, and told me to call for an officer visit if they show up again. Hm. So. I’m curious if anyone else has had a visit in the past couple of days? Any thoughts on how to respond?
Oh, we’re in central Wallingford, a few blocks up from QFC and Wallingford Center.
So, has anyone else seen these ladies door-to-dooring?
Also, to continue the all-crime-all-the-time trend, we note two threads going on in the Wallyhood Forums recently: Car Prowl on Sunnyside and Is it safe to run at night in our neighborhood.
We haven’t seen any ladies, but we did have a tall dark-skinned young man knock on our door Sunday afternoon wearing a pressed white shirt & blue tie.
The person who answered our door cut him off pretty quick into his schpiel so I dont’ know what he was going to say, but I thought it odd that he tried to look inside the house. Which isn’t a house, but an apartment… (35th & Wallingford).
Last month I was out with the dogs on a Friday night, when a guy with a gimp, that has been casing the neighborhood met another man who was dressed like he just left the gym with a large gym bag slung over his shoulder. They began discussing house numbers…4723…4356, etc. It was very suspicious. The man with the gym bag looked like one of the guys that panhandle on I-5.
I called the police and they were not interested at all. First I tried the North Precinct and the officer that took the call cut me off and said he didn’t want to hear my story because he could not dispatch a car and recommended I call 911. So I called 911 and asked for a non-emergency operator. By this time 15 minutes had pass, so the operator said there wasn’t anything she could do. It was a complete waste of time to call the police to report the suspicious behavior.
The guy with the gimp is still casing East Wallingford…I’ve seen him many times since then and saw him again this morning. There’s also a younger man with a backpack who knows the older guy with the gimp and I’ve seen them fan out after walking down 44th Ave together coming from the I-5 on ramp. They are both part of the I-5 panhandle gang.
@ChrisW – The same gentleman has come to our apartment door twice in the last two weeks. We live a couple of blocks northeast of you. The first time was two Saturdays ago. It was fairly late in the evening, and he really wanted to know our names but didn’t share his own, and his sales spiel was *so bad* that I felt pretty certain something was amiss. We called the North Precinct and supposedly they did have a patrol come by, though I’m not sure what came of it.
The salesman’s record keeping must be subpar because he came to our door again this past Sunday afternoon. He seemed more cogent this time, though I still wasn’t interested in his magazines. In retrospect, perhaps I should have called the police again but I decided to take him at his word and let the matter drop.
It’s hard to know how vigilant to be. I’m no big fan of the police state, and I don’t want to create a hostile neighborhood for visitors, but I also don’t want to feel like I am in danger of being robbed whenever I’m not home.
We had one of the dark skinned young guys come to our house selling magazines late last week. The “salesman” intimated my husband with information like “look I used to be a drug dealer, and it is obvious (while he is looking inside of our house) you can afford to give me $40 bucks”. The unwelcomed visit was suspicious and alarming given we have 2 small children.
We had these women come to our house last week in the evening, around 8 pm. We have windows in our front door, so I didn’t open it, just looked out and told her that we weren’t interested. She tried to engage me in discussion anyway and said she ‘wasn’t a weirdo’, but I just restated thanks, but I’m not opening my door.
It gets really old having people come to our door to sell things. I’m considering putting up a ‘no solicitation’ sign, but most of them are unappealing visually and it’s a bummer I’d have to basically put one up on my front door.
Brian– I agree with you about a non-hostile and supportive neighborhood vs. reasonable vigilance. Hard to know where to draw the line. We live just north of the Guild 45th and had a visit on Sunday evening. Since friends and neighbors don’t drop by without calling, I was sure it was someone looking for something so I didn’t answer the door, but I heard the guy talking with our 85 year old neighbor a couple of minutes later. Kept an eye on that too . . .
I had a man come to my door a day or 2 before Halloween around 8pm with a spiel that had something to do with kids picking up trash after Halloween and needing money for juice. It was a really weird encounter, since my dogs were going nuts behind the door. The part that really bugged me was that he told me my neighbor had just given him $20, and that he expected me to do the same. I know that neighbor and I seriously doubt he gave any money at all, so it was an obvious lie. I told him that I was a student and wasn’t in the position to make any sort of donation, and he handed me a copy of Eat the State. What the heck? I can get that for free, but he’s trying to solicit donations with it? Never saw him or any kids again after that. I’m in the lower part of Latona, near 40th.
I’m shocked to hear this is so common on a door-to-door basis. Scams like these have been going on for years – it used to be “my car broke down around the corner, and I need money to fix it.” The cops are usually savvy at recognizing the scams, so while the reception may be mixed while calling 911, I think its still best to report all this.
We too are in East Wallingford and have felt the impacts of the AIA, though perhaps not yet to the degree as along 50th.
Ever since the WashPIRG salesman swore at me for being so rude as to allow him go through his whole presentation “even though I had no intention of giving through him”, we have become VERY short with solicitors. At most we accept the written materials they might like to share with us.
We have two preteens who are home alone once in a while. We keep the doors locked, and our children know to call us or a neighbor if a stranger is on our porch.
I think from now on, when answering the unexpected knock, I will have ready a camera in case I feel the need to remember a face – especially if it’s someone who tries to intimidate us at our front door.
Just an FYI…if you want an officer to come out to your home or to be dispatched you have to call 911!!!! Even if it is a non emergency. I used to manage an apartment building and was told that every time I called. I hate to see people who say the police dont care or didnt want to hear it. They are simply educating you as to how to get an office to your location. In addition, the lack of response could be due to funding and the fact that there are not enough officers to deal with every situation in what YOU think is a timely manner. Some things may take priority. Lets give them a break!
Today, I had a woman knock at my door and give a similar story concerning an entrepreneurial program for recovering drug addicts/single mothers/previously convicted persons. I live up on Woodlawn closer to Green Lake/Tangletown. She promptly left once I said I was not interested but seemed concerned about my dog and the fact that he was barking a lot at her. I share similar concerns that she may be casing the joint especially since it was midday when I am normally at work. I didn’t call 911 because I am unsure whether this was just a “I need money for gas because my car ran out of gas” type scam or something more serious.
I had an African American woman knock on my door a few days ago in the mid-afternoon. I noticed that she was talking to another woman across the street who was going from door to door. I never answer my door, since I am not interested in any type of solicitation and have had some confrontational people come to my door. We are in the 4900 block of Woodlawn Ave N.
I had perhaps the same woman (black, fairly tall, with shoulder length hair tied back) yesterday around noon. (Gee, isn’t that when everyone’s home?) I’m kicking myself now because i brushed her harshly and quickly. In retrospect, I should have done something like the following:
Say to her,”Before I consider your appeal can I see your solicitor’s permit? (of course she won’t have one) So then I’d say something like, “Well I once got scammed out of some money because I didn’t ask for ID, so I’d feel better if I could at least see your driver’s license?” (Ask nice and innocently with a hint that maybe if she complies, she’ll get some money from you.) Then, before giving it back, snap a picture of her and her ID with my cell phone which i would have at the ready. If she takes offense, just reassure her, “Don’t take it personally, but I just do this now with all solicitors. That way, if any houses on my block get robbed, I can point the cops in the right direction.”
We need to start taking pictures/video of these people…
Happened to me, south of 45th, African American guy, said he was from the South, getting clean etc. etc. I told him that I don’t give at the door, he said he wasn’t looking for that. I kept pushing him to get to the point, he told me he was selling magazines ( I very much doubt it) I told him I didn’t need any, he left. My gut told me that this was all wrong.
Happened to me 2 days in a row. (39th and Interlake). African American Man named Quincy, ~5’9″ , ~200lbs selling magazines through some entrepreneur inc. program out of Ilinois. First day (yesterday) he caught my family and I leaving our house to get dinner. He starts by waiving his Better Business Bureau printout and reassuring you that what he’s doing is legitimate. I listened to his presentation about the program…how he used to be in a gang…how he was shot in the neck back in atlanta where he grew up…and how he’s trying to find success in life through this program. I kindly told him I was late for dinner and that I wasn’t interested. His tone of voice immediately changed and walked away. The next day (today), he comes knocking at my door saying I promised to help him out the day before, and that I couldn’t help him yesterday b/c I was heading out for dinner. I told him I never said that I’d help him and he started getting confrontational and a bit agressive. After 10 mins of him telling me how I’m a liar and that liars like me make him stronger, he finally left completely pissed off. I just did a little research on the BBB and Entrepeneurs Inc. in IL is no where to be found. Neighbors, be aware of scam. Looks like KomoNews did an article on this scam back in July…
http://www.komonews.com/news/51330712.html
Haduke: Your advice is great. I wish I had read this a few hours earlier.
Not sure how I’m going to sleep at night knowing i pissed off an ex-gang member w/ bullet wounds on the back of his head…
If you let these guys intimidate you they win. Every time. There is nothing hostile or unneighborly about telling a drug dealer who is casing your house to get lost.
Dont feel obligated to listen to their story, that only lets them make a specific connection with you, your house, and your family. I think sometimes we Wallyhoodians are too nice to the Wallyhoodlums and feel guilty when we dont give them money or listen to their sad story.
Sometimes you can’t avoid being the victim (kudos to the girl who lost her bag but punched the jerk in the stomach) but dont make it easy for them. Don’t answer the door when they come and tell them to get lost from another window. If they dont leave, take a picture of them and call the police. Yes the police wont do anything but if you are not an easy target, they will move on. If everyone does this, the Wallyhoodlums will move on to the next neighborhood.
Instead, focus on actually getting to know the people on your street, get their phone numbers and look out for them. They will do the same for you.
We had an African-American woman, Mid-30’s to early 40’s ring the doorbell last week (43rd and 2nd Ave NE) at around 8 in the evening giving the same schpiel about selling magazines to “turn her life around”. Politely said we weren’t interested and while she tried to keep going I repeated that we weren’t interested and she left and hasn’t returned.
This is great info, everybody, thanks.
My apartment manager has already arranged a “Meet your neighbors” event for our building soon & I’ll pass on some of the info shared here.
Stay safe everyone!
At a work-sponsored personal safety meeting long, long ago, a policeman advised us to never open the door to solicitors – even ones who you think are legitimate. As Ryan suggests above, tell them to go away through a window (I just tap on the window and shake my head “no”). Don’t engage. Don’t open the door. It feels very rude and unnatural (we are SO trained to be polite) but it’s the safe thing to do. Remember it’s YOUR home and they are the intruders even if they are legitimate.
That’s great advice Elizabeth. I’ve found it very difficult to get the magazine folks to move on – even to admit that they are indeed the magazine folks so I can say “no thank you” (usually they won’t say anything until they finish their pitch). I hate feeling like I’m being rude but I think those folks are taking advantage of my reluctance to seem impolite.
Shortly after moving into the neighborhood from Tucson about 7 months ago a white man around 30 or so dressed in a business suit came to my door in the late afternoon. I opened the door and he said he was “meeting the neighbors” because he was opening a business in the Fremont area in a few months. When he began asking for personal information – my name, etc. I got very uncomfortable and asked to see his business card. He said he didn’t have any yet. I did not give him any personal information and wished him well but said I was busy and could not talk. He left, but I felt very uncomfortable. One of my friends reamed me out for even opening the door. Count yourself lucky, she said, and next time don’t open the door unless you know who it is.
In addition to looking out for each other through our Wallycrimewave, let’s have a few more block parties this upcoming summer. When I first moved to Seattle and didn’t know anyone, the block parties were something that brought a lot of joy to my life. I’m looking forward to meeting more of my neighbors, especially now some of the recent construction in lower Wallingford has wrapped up.
I/we (depending) have lived in a few places in Wallingford over 20 years, mostly central, & N of 45th. As the economy has shrunk, I really haven’t seen a rise in non-legit solicitations. They’ve always been prevalent. It’s driven me to a kind of a system for myself.
1) It’s an abode, I work from home, and I don’t feel bad about not allowing a stranger to interrupt whatever I’m up to. For all they know, the residents could be running around naked or covered in feathers. So no… no guilt about not answering the door, and anyone not on crack or meth won’t yell through the window about what an ass you are for not answering (this has happened to us). Which is the kind of person you probably don’t want to have that conversation with anyway from even closer proximity.
2) People who know me know how to reach me in better ways… so that energetic knocking sound is a tipoff that helps me avoid unwanted talks about the Mormon church or magazine sales (as a euphemism).
3) I do sometimes answer cold knocks at the (partly glass) door when I don’t feel it’s a disruption, and frankly, just when I feel like it — as in, feel more sociable & curious than concerned. Political campaigners sometimes hold great discussions, and rely on door-to-door meetings. I appreciate the courage of those who are legit; they face as many unknowns as we do in answering.
4) I nearly always talk through the door instead of open it, but there are exceptions. I never open it immediately. Either way, if it’s purportedly a plea for a cause, I say Sorry, we don’t give without backup through the mail, on paper; or I ask for a phone number to call for more information. If it’s just about money or a cause not easily verified (magazine subscription model), I say “Sorry, I don’t want to waste your time. We can’t contribute to any cause right now — we’ve been screwed lately too.” More often than not, response is a polite leaving.
I think the key, if there’s one key I’ve found (not limited to solicitations) is to treat others as deserving of respect… while honing antenna about those who are truly out of control.
As a side effect, I think that also enhances safety. I do believe that everyone deserves, and most people still have it together enough to appreciate, being treated with respect. Even those who’ve turned to door-to-door crime, while it’s tempting to view them just as predators. It’s a desparation. Being rude or reactionary doesn’t make anyone safer in their home, and doesn’t do anything toward changing the attitude of potential stealers etc., who might need to objectify their potential hits as arrogant or greedy.
I came to all this through the GW Bush years, when to any solicitor, at the door or on the phone, I said (honestly) : “Every spare penny is going toward getting this administration out of office. Until then, we have nothing to give. Best of luck to you, but this isn’t open to discussion.” Some resulting conversations gave me hope for the future. A couple out of many examples: one of the “dark-skinned” magazine-selling persons reported so often here — that’s another story, Wallyhoodians — whom I’d opened the door to talk with (he wasn’t peering inside, and it was daytime, which I require always before I answer an unexpected knock) stopped mid-sentence into his spiel, took my hands in his, and said “Thank you,” with tears in his eyes, turned, and left. A police fund solicitor over the phone also thanked me and said he wish he was allowed to have a discussion on the phone, but best of luck to ME. A phone solicitor from Comcast talked for 1/2 hour with me; he had served in Iraq, and we had a great conversation about the challenge of coming from a military family but not supporting current practice. No money changed hands in any of these examples, and no one was hurt, and no house broken into. Something in common with all other commenters here, as far as I can tell, thankfully… Hope this helps – I appreciate everyone’s comments on the wonderlicious Wallyhood blog!
The other night my friend and I made housecalls to visit some friends in the neighborhood while walking to the P-I. It seemed so quaint to show up unannounced at the door without calling first. Quaint and real nice. Hey friends, please show up at my door unannounced any time, I will invite you in for refreshments.