Harley spotted this poster and 5 or 6 of its brethren posted around 55th and Wallingford:
Recorded? My License Plate? By whom?!
Under the spreading chestnut tree…
© 2009 - 2023 Wallyhood
Harley spotted this poster and 5 or 6 of its brethren posted around 55th and Wallingford:
Recorded? My License Plate? By whom?!
Under the spreading chestnut tree…
© 2009 - 2023 Wallyhood
I noticed these signs too, and I find them rather disturbing. They’re along Wallingford between 50th and 55th. I’m all for a neighborhood crime watch, but these signs are pretty scary. Has someone set up cameras, or are people sitting in their houses writing down the license plate numbers of everyone who goes by? The signs strike me as a scare tactic, but I think they’re more scary for relatively innocent neighbors than for potential criminals.
I am disturbed, as well. Is this even legal? I also didn’t understand your reference, Wallyhood, so I was interested in finding out. For those of you who also didn’t understand the “chestnut tree” reference, it appears to refer to Orwell’s book 1984. You can read about it here: http://www.enotes.com/1984/q-and-a/quot-under-spreading-chestnut-tree-sold-you-you-21701
I don’t think W is referring to the Henry Wadsworth Longfellow poem, “The Village Blacksmith,: which begins with the words “Under a spreading chestnut tree….” That tone is just a bit lighter. http://www.bartleby.com/102/59.html
While that’s not my part of the neighborhood, I understand why they’re doing this. I’m closer to Gas Works and we get a lot of people who park their cars on the side streets to buy and sell drugs. Last week, from my kitchen window, (as I was making dinner, I don’t just sit around taking notes) a guy parked in front of my house, walked out of sight down the block, and was dropped off by another car a few minutes later. Then he got back into his car, tied off his left arm and stuck it with a needle. I called 911 and gave him the license plate number, and by the time the cops arrived a few minutes later, he’d nodded off at the wheel. At 6 in the evening about 3 feet from my yard.
When I saw the signs up on Wallingford I just figured they had they same problem and were trying to let these guys know that people were noticing. Not really different than the ubiquitous Neighborhood Watch signs I think.
Do it at Julia’s!
Chuck is right. Those of us who live on Wallingford Ave. in the 52-53-54th St area have been having problems with drug dealing for several months now. Usually in the afternoons, an unfamiliar-to-the-neighborhood car will pull up -usually with tinted glass and park. Then another car arrives, a guy gets out, goes to the other car for a couple of minutes, goes back to his car and then drives off. We started to photograph and write down plates and submit them to the police. The cops said there is nothing they can do unless they catch someone in the act. They encouraged us to put up signs and continue to monitor activity. We held a neighborhood meeting and decided to post the signs as a deterrent. There are no surveillance cameras or vigilante photographers but there is heightened awareness in the neighborhood and we think the signs are working. Hopefully the activity hasn’t just moved to another part of Wallingford!
The reason this is being done is because drugs are being sold out of one or more houses in that area. The group of people who posted the signs are working with/are in contact with the police. As I’ve state elsewhere, a lot of the “petty” and not so petty crime that has been growing in our neighborhood has been brought by the customers of the drug dealers. It is unfortunate that these extremes have to be gone to and that some in the community feel uncomfortable about it. While I am not saying for sure that the robberies at Julias, Jupiter & Bartells are connected, in the past this kind of crime in Wally would have been unusual.
I’m glad to get the scoop on these signs, and sorry to hear that these peaceful, friendly blocks are seeing this kind of activity. For the people living on that street, it must be awfully frustrating to be aware of criminal activity but unable to stop it effectively – as Sara says, I hope these signs haven’t just moved the drug deals to another block. It is frustrating that the police can’t do their own surveillance and catch these guys in the act.
I’ve seen and reported this same kind of drug activity on 46th behind the QFC parking lot.
I live on 53rd between Woodlawn and Wallingford and was totally disturbed by the signs. I’m happy to know there is no actual recording going on but it still seems a little heavy handed to me. It’s not the welcome I want guests to my house to have when they visit my neighborhood.
Lauren, so would you rather have your guests “welcomed” by your friendly neighborhood addict and dope dealer?
I’m as much a privacy advocate as anyone. But i think it’s a safe bet that any license plates being recorded are likely those doing nefarious activities in our neighborhood. Too all the people wringing their hands over these signs, so if the neighborhood isn’t supposed to involve itself in trying to solve this problem, what are your suggestions then? I see none.
Instead, just whining about the so-called rights of addicts and dealers. IMO, they have more rights than they deserve. But tell you what: I’ll start respecting their rights when they start respecting the right of our neighborhood to be a safe place for our families. The can start by getting the F— out of our neighborhood, and go become the problem of another neighborhood that is more “tolerant” of this crap.
Plus, you know, your license plate number is printed there plainly for everyone to see. It’s not like it’s “private” in the first place.
As Sara and others suggest I think the possible bad effect of these signs is just moving the problem to other places. I think that’s the city’s problem though. I’ve never seen a police car patrolling around anywhere except on 45th St. There’s little risk of getting caught so that’s where they run their business.
@Hayduke, I didn’t hear any “whining” in Lauren’s post, and in any case, she was saying that her OWN rights and the impact on her friends was what as at issue, not those of “addicts and dealers”.
I really wish you’d keep the tone friendly in this forum. Personal attacks aren’t conducive to the free exchange of ideas and information. Thanks in advance!
Wallyhood, you make a fair point about my “whining” comment. If it came across as a personal attack, it wasn’t meant to be. And while I realize my tone might come across as unfriendly sometimes, I guess it’s because of my frustration that these problems seem to have gotten worse over the last few years. Furthermore, what irks me is that it seems like whenever someone talks about trying to do something about it, there’s a bunch of others who are just apologists for bums, drug dealers and thieves. Some people seem to have a mentality, reflected in their comments, that we as a neighborhood should just tolerate these miscreants as a consequence of living in the city. Sorry, but that’s how i interpret comments like, “it still seems a little heavy handed to me” and, “we’re just pushing the problem into another neighborhood.” So what are we supposed to about it then, nothing?
What will it take for our neighborhood and others to finally say we’re not going to excuse it and turn a blind eye to it? When someone’s kid get’s stuck by a hypo on the ground? When some worthless junkie breaks into someone’s house and not only steals, but assaults or kills someone? if it hasn’t already happened, they way things are going, it will. If we want our neighborhood to be a safe place, we need to organize and nip this in the bud NOW, and not when it’s uncontrollable. I know some folks on Aurora have banded together and things have improved a bit because of their actions. There’s no reason while are comparatively tame neighborhood here can’t do the same. It’s the old “broken windows” argument I’m talking about here.
I realize this is your blog, and you want to keep it friendly. But issues like crime in my neighborhood get me worked up, and I tend to be blunt in my challenging of conventional wisdom. That said, I’ll try to play nicer from here on.
Respectfully, Hayduke
Thanks Hayduke.
I do share your frustration (and obviously a lot of other Wallyhood reader residents do as well). That I spend spend less time voicing it, I think is driven by my belief that we “know” that viewpoint, but there are other, more obscure but potentially worthy ideas that deserve exploring.
For example, the idea of responsibility.
Suppose you have a kid that’s born to a couple of alcoholic parents. He’s never taught that learning and kindness are important, he just learns to get by stealing and fighting, because he’s never seen anything else.
Now, let’s say he’s 8 yrs old. Is he worthless scum who should be shipped off? Most of us would say no, we (society) should try to help him.
OK, what about when’s 9? 13? 16? 18? 21? 30?
At what point do we say “you should miraculously figure out that what you’re doing is wrong, even though you’ve never seen anything different, and each day, you are the same person you were the day before, plus one more day of the same.”? At what point does that poor, abused 8 yr old become a “worthless junkie”?
(And really, really, really THANK YOU for listening to my “play nice” request.)
Your welcome.
And at what point does that now 30 year man start to take some responsibility for himself and what he does to others? Or does he get a free pass all his life on acting civilized because he was abused as a kid? Maybe I don’t represent “most of society,” but I happen to believe the neighborhood has rights as well. As long as we keep rationalizing this kind of behavior, it will only get worse, because those who engage in it will take advantage of those who do nothing about it.
I am with ya, Hayduke!
I like the back & forth of this discussion. I think Wallyhood is a great forum for discovering unique solutions as time goes on. We’re creative, and we all care about the neighborhood. We’ll figure it out!
I agree with Hayduke. I also agree with me. Life’s complex.
Hi All,
Apologies in advance for the length of the note. I’m one of the sign-posting residents, and wanted to add a few words to what Sara had written. Our neighborhood group has been in complete agreement that the problem of drug dealers and buyers meeting to conduct their transactions is real and provokes anxiety and concern. The thing is, we can’t all agree on the ideal solution, or even on the actions to take. Everything is a compromise. Nevertheless, we all feel better having built good community spirit and take comfort in the knowledge that we are looking out for each other even more than before.
After witnessing a rash of transactions a couple of months ago, I wrote and spoke with the Seattle Police officer responsible for our area and gave him details as a matter of record. He looked up the plates of the cars I had noticed, and NONE were from the neighborhood (they’re mostly from Seattle’s south end, and one from Bellevue). Officer Testerman insisted that the great majority of these deals are all about exchanging small amounts of money and drugs, and are not terribly threatening. These are typically low level couriers and end users; not high profile dealers. Well, they still aren’t welcome here, and some of us don’t like the potential for casing the neighborhood in preparation for car prowls or home burglaries.
Many of us are very conscious (as are folks on this list) of privacy issues, and the signs are intended to deter “unwelcome parking”, i.e., the drive-by drug trade. We do take down plate numbers of cars that clearly participate in these 2-car meet-ups, but we don’t wish to do so or to hassle any neighborhood residents, unless there is a SIGNIFICANT and prolonged level of probable cause. That’s been very rare in the 20 years I’ve lived here. We do not want to turn our neighborhood into an Orwellian nightmare just because strangers are using our nice neighborhood to conduct a few drug deals.
It is clear that the police can’t and won’t do anything more than take our reports and look up a few plates unless the problem becomes much more severe, so we have recognized that any action taken to solve this problem must come from us. I’ve been impressed with the overall level of pragmatism, and the balance between sky-is-falling whining (and irrational paranoia) on one extreme and reactionary vigilante militancy (and irrational paranoia) on the other. People are by and large very reasonable, and over the objections of only a few are willing to try something basically benign like the signs. Some of us have been willing to go out and chat up the intruders, and ask them if they need help “finding something”, for example. Unfortunately, it appears that so far, we have never seen the same car twice among the dozen or so recorded incidents, and I’m starting to think that the number of transactions city wide must be pretty big.
We’ve created a Google mail group for communicating neighborhood emergencies and reports of crime. So far, it has worked to inform the neighbors (over a ~4 block area) of several incidents, including one registered sexual predator sitting in his white panel “handyman’s van” who was accosted by a neighbor who assumed he was another drug-related visitor; we have zero tolerance for that jerk, and the police have asked us to call 911 right away if we see him again (more details upon request). The incidents have not stopped since the signs went up, but they do seem to have tapered off a little. It’s an experiment, and of course, we all wish this problem did not exist.
I applaud the Wallyhood blog for doing your part to foster neighborly communication and civility. Until these drug transactions came into our blocks from somewhere else, we enjoyed each other’s company at Seattle Night Out block parties, gardening, and walking the dog… the increased contact has been a good thing for our community, and we hope that mild pressure will move the drug problem elsewhere. We have no illusion that our actions will do anything to solve the underlying problem of illegal drug trade. We don’t know what drugs are involved… probably the usual suspects ranging from pot to heroine. The larger conversation about drugs and American culture needs to be more vigorous, and the political initiative to solve drug-related problems still needs to be fostered. In the meantime, we are trying to make it uncomfortable for users and dealers to conduct their business here.
Warmly, Peter
thanks for the thoughtful and balanced post. as the one who saw the signs and flipped the picture to jordan, I am glad to see this post. too often the knee jerk reactions from both the rabid sarcasm of the “my rights trump all” and the “bumper sticker liberals” makes for challenging discourse. people, myself included sometimes, just want to hear their own voice and feel good about seeing their dearly held opinions reflected in a forum without really, thoughtfully, answering the query or looking for an answer. or even as you have so generously demonstrated admit they don’t know of a good answer vs. just regurgitating the same old tired tropes.
great post and great approach addressing the problem in what truly appears to be a fair and balanced way.